Figs in Winter
2 min readFeb 10, 2025

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Roman, yes, there definitely are good arguments for materialism over idealism, and I summarized some in my recent comment. Of course you may or may not agree that those arguments are convincing, but they are to me.

> yet all our knowledge of reality is ultimately derived through mental experiences <

But we have interpersonal validation, as well as validation from scientific instrumentation, so it’s not that easy.

> predictive power relates to scientific models, not metaphysical truth <

But those models assume metaphysical materialism.

> The very nature of quantum mechanics <

Please, let’s set aside QM. It’s really not helpful in this context, and prone to much misunderstandings.

> epistemology raises challenges for materialism and suggests that mind may be more fundamental than matter <

That’s news to me. Are you talking about panpsychism? There are excellent arguments against that as well.

> The success of materialist science in explaining natural phenomena does not prove that materialism is the ultimate reality - it simply demonstrates that materialist methodologies are effective within their domain <

Agreed, but I’ve never heard of an idealist science, have you? So the success of materialist science is prima facie evidence that materialism may in fact be true.

> Quantum mechanics hinted strongly science forget the observer <

Again, not helpful. “Observer” in QM means any physical system that interacts with a particle, not a literal human observer. The notion that QM somehow leads us down the path of consciousness-based mysticism is simply not based in the science.

> Also science is not about ultimate truth - it's about its practical approximation <

Approximation to… truth? Again, got any mystically rooted alternative to knowledge that works better than science?

> For the sake of argument, it's relatively easy to unify across observers in the Matrix, aka Creation <

I’m sorry, what does that mean? Can you elaborate?

> What is called "scientific materialism" may be a transitional phase in the deeper journey of consciousness toward understanding itself and the world <

I’m sorry but that sounds way too speculative. “May be”? Do you have anything more concrete / convincing?

> I pretty much like the hermeneutic circles ideas, jsut wanted get even more out of the box :-) <

Well, it was a fun discussion!

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Figs in Winter
Figs in Winter

Written by Figs in Winter

by Massimo Pigliucci, a scientist, philosopher, and Professor at the City College of New York. Exploring and practicing Stoicism & other philosophies of life.

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